Iron Miners
It is currently Sat Nov 18, 2017 11:54 am

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 61 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
Author Message
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 12:42 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2008 6:51 pm
Posts: 1423
Location: SW Indiana
Since we are talking about Illinois Basin. The ideal situation would be to find an outcrop of low sulfur coal. Second best would be any low sulfur. Typical mid-sulfur coal only has a market when it is delivered by the train car or unit train.

The ticket is to find coal that has higher value. The larger producers who are selling train loads, ( typically 8,000 to 10,000 tons ) of mid-sulfur coal to the power plants dwarf anything a small producer can do. But if you have something they want, then they will pay attention and money. Here in SW Indiana that is low-sulfur. They can mix it with the crap they mine and raise the value of what they have.

That is the basis for shipping Wyoming Coal to the Midwest. Super cheap to mine and lower Sulfur. There the cost of diesel fuel to move it 1500 miles is a factor. The massive seams of coal offset the distance to market.

_________________
I don't have all the answers.
I don't even know all the questions!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 1:07 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2008 6:51 pm
Posts: 1423
Location: SW Indiana
Here are a couple of photos from Mr. Peabody's Wyoming mines:

Image


Image



Image

_________________
I don't have all the answers.
I don't even know all the questions!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 5:36 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2005 2:34 pm
Posts: 6906
Location: Within 60 Miles of the Northern Anthracite Field
thats pretty amazing in the last photo how they have all the top rock scraped off and the entire vein is exposed. pretty thick vein as well. neat photos doug....

_________________
Come over to the Dark Side....... We have Cookies!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 11:03 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun May 11, 2008 9:07 pm
Posts: 15
Location: Nanticoke,Pa.
it is amazing. i had an encounter with an outcropn vein of coal and and if a person had alot of time on their hands, trhey could make alot of money on the side.

_________________
Sdmbrandy2


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 16, 2011 12:00 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 3:43 pm
Posts: 925
Location: Western PA
Hey, just as a data point, we were down in Greene County PA and northern WV last week and house coal could be bought by employees of the mines for $45-55/ton, which I understand, is close to the cost of production.

If that figure is close to the actual production cost, I imagine it would be tough for an independent bituminous operation to compete against against a LW operation, just based on cost of production.

Any ideas on how much it costs to get a ton of clean coal out in the anthracite?

_________________
-Thou shalt not little vein-


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 16, 2011 3:08 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Jan 15, 2011 7:57 am
Posts: 17
Location: Hopkins County Ky.
I see two areas that were mentioned.
(01) Accessing the coal and the associated cost.
(02) Selling smaller or limited amounts of tonnage.

Accessing the coal and the associated cost:
It is not generally considered practical to attempt to reopen a bituminous mine that has been completely shut down. One reason being you can stand in a main entry or road and see the lights for a long distance away (sometimes up to one to two hundred yards) before the lights disappear over a gradually sloping hill. So if you have water chest deep then that would be a lot of water to pump out and water related problems to resolve. And then you might travel up to a mile and experience roof falls that would obstruct ventilation plans. You would have long expanses of shale that had fallen out of the top and floor upheaval from the weight of the pillars. If it is a mine where the production had been stopped but with water pumping and ventilation being continued and a active fireboss making scheduled rounds then yes the mine can resume production. But however it would cost a arm and a leg to buy or lease such a mine. The majority of the small one and two unit mines here in West Kentucky have been purchased by the larger coal companies and are running full production 24 hours a day 7 days a week. I know of a privately owned mine and the owner is getting at least one call a week from a large well known company wanting to buy it. They are offering what he considers to be two times its actual worth.


There are hundreds of smaller blocks of coal left after the older strip mines took what is called the “gravy coalâ€


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 16, 2011 7:24 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2008 6:51 pm
Posts: 1423
Location: SW Indiana
If you are opening the discussion to include surface that is another story.

If you could lease one of those isolated blocks. Mine it with a Mid to large track-hoe the there might be a chance. Especially if the coal it of high-quality.

As has been discussed elsewhere. The profitability of stripping deeper coal has increases in recent years. Mostly because hydraulic shovels and end-dumps are cheaper than massive dragline and stripping shovels. They can also work a smaller pit.


I want to hear more on the 1 unit western Ky mine.

_________________
I don't have all the answers.
I don't even know all the questions!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 16, 2011 7:47 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2007 5:11 pm
Posts: 899
Location: NEPA
I dont know if it was me I would try to find a coal seam that had a niche market because of its qualities, like one that was good for blacksmithing or something. Than you could proabably sell it for a 100 to 120 dollars a ton and do allright for yourself. You'll have to mine,screen, and sell it yourself but you'll do allright.

_________________
"We don't look for any money all we look for is a little help and the only help we get is for the government to shut us down and if you go to the gas station and buy the gas you'll see why..........................you'll see why"


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 16, 2011 10:46 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2008 6:51 pm
Posts: 1423
Location: SW Indiana
I don't think there is much niche coal in the Illinois Basin. A little bit might make MET coal. But I guess that is where the real work is, finding the vein and it's niche market.

_________________
I don't have all the answers.
I don't even know all the questions!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 17, 2011 3:18 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Jan 15, 2011 7:57 am
Posts: 17
Location: Hopkins County Ky.
Doug wrote:
If you are opening the discussion to include surface that is another story.

If you could lease one of those isolated blocks. Mine it with a Mid to large track-hoe the there might be a chance. Especially if the coal it of high-quality.

As has been discussed elsewhere. The profitability of stripping deeper coal has increases in recent years. Mostly because hydraulic shovels and end-dumps are cheaper than massive dragline and stripping shovels. They can also work a smaller pit.


I want to hear more on the 1 unit western Ky mine.


You are right. The profitability of stripping deeper seams of coal has increased considerably within the past couple of decades. But you need to take into consideration the cost of the equipment that would be required for surface mining. You would need at least one of the larger size dozers, a drill rig, end loader or a shovel and maybe a large capacity haul truck and a water truck. And extra money up front to maintain and fuel the equipment before the first load of coal is moved.
But however if you were to reopen a old highwall with the intentions of underground mining you could avoid a lot of the initial cost of overburden drilling, blasting and material removal associated with a strip mine operation. And the equipment that would be used in a small one unit underground mine would not be as expensive as what would be used in a strip mine operation. Keeping in mind the equipment and techniques would be somewhat similar to those used in anthracite and rock mining operations.

Another thing to take into consideration is some of these old strip mine areas have not been reclaimed. If im not mistaken all abandoned mine areas are on a waiting list with the state being responsible for financing the reclamation cost.

Im wondering if it would be possible for a person to get a partial reclamation bond discount based upon the state being responsible for a certain percentage of the reclamation cost while the mine operator pays the remaining part of the reclamation cost. Maybe this could help relieve the cost of the reclamation bond expense.

And what would be the possibility of grants being available for the study of a methane gas extraction. What if the mine was set up so that long term methane gas extraction could be conducted after the mining activity is completed.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 17, 2011 8:41 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2008 6:51 pm
Posts: 1423
Location: SW Indiana
So, about these smaller, independent mines?

_________________
I don't have all the answers.
I don't even know all the questions!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 17, 2011 9:16 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon May 08, 2006 2:16 pm
Posts: 1501
Location: Central Ohio
GEEZ Doug its not a vein of coal in Illinois its a seam :oops: You had it right before....until Chris called the Wyoming strip coal a vein then you went south on me right back to the anty region lingo hahahaha :D

_________________
Pioneering the next INDUSTRIAL REVOLUTION (Preservation ! ). . . Saving equipment (1) mine site at a time.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 17, 2011 10:05 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2008 6:51 pm
Posts: 1423
Location: SW Indiana
:lol: :lol: :lol: GUILTY

I've always heard the term seam. I try to think Anty veins and Bitty Seams. I must have slipped up.

_________________
I don't have all the answers.
I don't even know all the questions!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 1:25 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Jan 15, 2011 7:57 am
Posts: 17
Location: Hopkins County Ky.
Doug wrote:
So, about these smaller, independent mines?


I hope i havent got lost here but ill try to answer your question as i understand it is being asked.

Most of these smaller independent mines are in East Kentucky with a few here in West Kentucky. And they are mostly one and two unit mines using continuous miners to produce coal. And im sure a small number of mines in East Kentucky still use cutting machines and conventional blasting methods.

But i would like to focus on how a bituminous operation would mine coal here in West Kentucky using various blasting techniques as opposed to using a continuous miner. Then purchase a continuous miner at a later date after the mines has earned enough profit allowing the cash in hand purchase of either a new or a completely rebuilt miner.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 8:58 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu Jun 26, 2008 3:39 pm
Posts: 170
Location: West Virginia
Cheapest way to get into mechanized mining would be,O.k. get our your list. Find a used deck miner ie, 245,265, lee norse, 1410, 1403,1415 joy, marrietta miner, old eimco. Before taking it do a backyard rebuild. Hoses, electrical connection so on. Next a roof bolter. Fletcher is probably going to break the budget. So long airdox would probably be the most economical. Then you will need at least three scoops. One to haul supplies and clean two to run coal with. Once you get inside a while you will need to put in a belt line. This involve a belt drive and belt. When running a scoop section you do not have to use a feeder breaker to dump onto the belt. You can dump onto the tailpiece.

_________________
_______________________________________ www.pickandshovel.org "For Miners By Miners"


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 61 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot] and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group