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PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 6:41 pm 
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Location: Hard coal region, PA
unless you do it by rail ;) And roof bolter?? Posh!! Jackleg drill with a short leg!

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 7:30 pm 
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So how does using a jack-leg drill to roof bolt work? What do you use to support the top while you're drilling?

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 19, 2011 4:42 am 
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Location: Hopkins County Ky.
Doug wrote:
So how does using a jack-leg drill to roof bolt work? What do you use to support the top while you're drilling?


Concerning what i had said about blasting until enough profit could be made to afford a continuous miner. I forgot to also add that a certain amount of profit would have to be made before a pinner could be purchased and a pinner would most likely need to be purchased prior to a continuous miner.

In reference to drilling and shooting the face, scaling top, mucking and pinning on a mine slope. We would drill and blow the hole, load and shoot the face and then scale the top. We would use a jack leg to drill the holes and then use a large air wrench to set our roof bolts. (We used standard glue cartridge type roof bolts and split pins for the ribs). We would not do our mucking until after we set our roof bolts due to the fact we would be standing on top of the gob which allowed the jack legs top be close enough to drill the top.

Ive never shot coal and i would much rather use something like the Cardox that Doug mentioned. (My father tells me the coal mines he worked in southern Illinois shot with compressed air back in the late 70’s and early 80’s). But if you were carefull and didn’t bust the top too badly you could scale what little loose top you had and then set temporary props ever so many feet (from rib to rib) across the entry. This would possibly allow you to run a jack leg to drill your holes and use a air wrench to set the roof bolts. Then you could pull your props out and continue driving your entry.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 19, 2011 7:15 am 
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Location: Within 60 Miles of the Northern Anthracite Field
So how does using a jack-leg drill to roof bolt work? What do you use to support the top while you're drilling?"

props doug, props....... this is how they do it over at harmony coal in mt carmel. ol banksey ol boy knows all about that........ haha.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 19, 2011 7:41 am 
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I guess I thought that Harmony was a CM mine and used a bolter with hydraulic support.

We haven't talked about seam height yet. ( See Pete I can talk Bitty. ) I'm thinking timber props in lower coal. I need a calibration trip, I've only seen multi-unit bitty. And of course Anty.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 19, 2011 7:27 pm 
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Actually if your going to bolt with a leg you wont use wooden timber you'll use temporary steel jacks. Of course If its a low budget operation wooden timber can be used in lieu of bolts but they would be in the way latter on when you switch over to mechanized mining. Now if you want to increase your production while your developing you could use drags (slusher hoists ) and v buckets and drag right into your buggys. You'll have to build a ramp at each breast or room as it is to drag right in the car but it would be worth it.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 20, 2011 5:20 am 
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Mike A wrote:
Actually if your going to bolt with a leg you wont use wooden timber you'll use temporary steel jacks. Of course If its a low budget operation wooden timber can be used in lieu of bolts but they would be in the way latter on when you switch over to mechanized mining. Now if you want to increase your production while your developing you could use drags (slusher hoists ) and v buckets and drag right into your buggys. You'll have to build a ramp at each breast or room as it is to drag right in the car but it would be worth it.


Im not familiar with the drags (slusher hoists) and v buckets. I think i might have an idea how this would work but then again i could be imagining something completely different. A re there and diagrams or photos available of how this type of set up works?

But i was thinking more along the lines of using a side dump model mucker with rubber tires or with tracks (not rail mounted) to load coal into a car. And then have a cable and hoist set up to pull the loaded car back out of the entry and out of the mines and into the yard. When the car was empty it would be light enough to either pull or push into the entry and back into the face.

One thing you would often encounter is draw rock falling out from between the roof bolts and im thinking a mucker would be best suited to clean this type of debris from the entries.

Does any company presently make a diesel powered mucker?
Or would a diesel powered mucker be considered under powered?
Or do they make a diesel powered mucker that will growl like a air powered mucker? :lol: :lol: :lol:


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 20, 2011 6:28 am 
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I'd plan on mucking before you bolt... Or bolt as you muck.. Depends how high of seam were talking here, but i can't imagine it being more than 7-8 feet, and thats eeeeasy to bolt with a jack leg. Where i'm working currently we're bolting 9-10 sometimes 11 feet above our heads no problem with a jack leg.

Slushers and #6 scoop shovels are def. gunna be the cheapest choice for mucking, but they do make a line up of diesel and electric powered muckers for rubber tire haulage. I think diesel equipment can only be used on intake airways in a coal mine tho?? And it stinks.
:?

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 20, 2011 5:12 pm 
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I dont know of any diagrams really of a drag setup but if you go to MSHAs website and find there link for videos and under the collections heading they have a group of movies strictly on small anthracite mines. Click on the one titled haulage and hoisting. There is some good footage in there and there are a couple pictures of drags and chutes being used in a flatish for the anthracite vein. That particular mine was longwall mining with drags actually. Maybe you might be better of getting a old rubber tired jumbo and a old scoop fixing just whats broke and going to town that way. There was another mine here that got a jumbo and a old scoop, drove a tunnel paralell to a thicker vein, turned entries into the vein off the gangway, longHOLED the vein cause it was hard pitch, and just drove the scoop into the pile of coal and out of the mine.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 20, 2011 6:05 pm 
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We spoke about opening an anty mine in depth a few years ago...in the dreamy days. One obstacle as far as anty goes, where would you sell it ? There are only a few breakers left, and last I heard with the monopoly they have on being the only processors they pretty much pay next to nothing. Last I heard Kasy Kasa and Reading were only paying $ 40 a ton for run of mine anthracite back in 2006. I also alluded to the fact of reclaiming anthracite from old railroad beds in the northern field.Going so far as contacting the land owners near the Underwood in Throop ( old Erie Railroad bed) As there are still alot of them left. By the time I got thru the permitting, cost to strip it out, and hauling it to the breaker it was barely a break even situation. With the cost of fuel sky high Im sure the transportation costs have risen quite a bit since then. I think its possible, just have to be really big, or really small operation near the breakers. As everyone said "down country" has better oppurtunities.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 21, 2011 12:00 am 
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Yeah, tony, the northern field might be tough with the breakers cause they're so cut off it seems from the southern. If casa can't pay, the coal can drive right by his breaker and head down 81 to Hegins!


Another note to the bolting discussion: You don't need a impact gun to tighten mechanical bolts.... weld a socket on a short steel and let the jack leg do the tightening too! :wink:

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 21, 2011 3:00 pm 
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It was a shame when that quarry company bought Kaminski's in Dupont. That breaker wasnt more than ten years old, operated very well. and meticulosuly maintained.When they bought the land they just sold the breaker for scrap !!! TEN years old in excellent condition. :x


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 21, 2011 6:08 pm 
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Another tragedy was just recently they tore down Pollocks breaker AKA Emerald Anthracite in Truesdale. It was a pretty nice operation. I was through it just before they scrapped it. Had a nice HM Drum for coarse coal, Cyclones for finer coal, Two stage magnets for ore recovery, and was a modular design plant so if somebody really wanted to they could have dissasembled it and moved it elsewhere. That leaves Cassey Kassa's two breakers and Popples Hudson Anthracite in the Northern Field.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 22, 2011 2:27 pm 
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Would have been nice to disasemble it and take it to Reading country. Pay a decent price for run of the mine coal. Think thats another part of the reason not many new mines are opened. Go thru all the regulatory BS to open it, bust your ass mining it,, get harassed to no end by the regulators/inspectors just to get a shitty price when its all said and done ? And we wont even get into the tree hugging bastards. There as bad as those Eddy creek bastards...right Chris ? :D


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 22, 2011 5:34 pm 
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Location: Within 60 Miles of the Northern Anthracite Field
yep, thats them, gotta watch out for em.....

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