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 Post subject: Unknown mine on Little Stony Point Park, Putnam County
PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 2:54 pm 
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Location: Beacon, New York
Hello,

I've been doing research on and visiting iron mines in Putnam County over the past few years, but have failed to find a direct reference to the small mine (probably iron ore) located in Little Stony Point Park, just north of Cold Spring. The mine lies along the southwestern margin of the park, overlooking the river, looking directly out towards the Cold Spring waterfront and USMA beyond.

Casually explored it on a recent outing--not a very extensive working, compared with the mines found along the Philips vein in Fahnestock State Park. Neither Blake in his history of Putnam County (1849), or Pelletreau (1880something), mention this mine (as far as I can interpret). Not sure where the ore would have been shipped to--maybe the WPF or Cold Spring blast furnaces, given their proximity?

So, is anyone familiar with this mine, its name, dates of working? I have not delved into any other resources yet that might be held at the PCHS in Cold Spring--a project for the coming colder months for sure.


Thanks in advance,


-T. Arron Kotlensky

Industrial Archaeologist
Beacon, NY


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 11:37 am 
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Location: Winnemucca, NV
Hi Arron,

I am familiar with the tunnel you described in Little Stony Point Park. It appears as a relatively standard sized 19th century adit entrance off the main trail overlooking the Hudson River. Upon entering, its proportions dramatically decrease and the tunnel splits off perpendicularly at a T intersection. Like you I've been unable to uncover any information on its history or any possible relationship with the quarry on the north side of the peninsula. However, I'm also not convinced there was any ore found here which might help explain its relative obscurity. Perhaps if there was no ore discovered, then its operation was short-lived and thus no record of shipment.

In addition, unlike New Jersey where nearly every mine has been documented big and small, there are a handful of mines in southern New York that have never been formally documented, some of which are only mentioned in modern trail books and on our site -- two of these include the Lewis Mine and Dater's Exploration. There is a mine in Carmel, NY with two adits, one fully accessible, but with no name or history we can attach to it.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 3:32 pm 
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Location: Beacon, New York
Thanks Miner Mike for the quick reply!

That does make sense, that it may have only served exploratory/adit needs. I have read of but haven't explored some of the supposed worked ore outcroppings on Constitution Island that were excavated during the nineteenth century--I thought that they may have some physical relationship with the possible ore deposit on Little Stony Point, but as is, there's no practical way to test this. Oh well.

Past this, I have an additional local mine question. In doing research on the West Point Foundry's blast furnace that operated between the 1820s and 1840s, I found references to hematite ore used from Townsend's mine near Salisbury Mills. From some of the descriptions that I have read in secondary sources, the mine would seem to have been an open excavation. Are you at all familiar with this mine? I would really like to get a handle on its exact location for mapping purposes.

And are there any active mine mapping or documentation projects going on with IronMiners? I'm a professional industrial archaeologist working out of Croton and as of late, my daytime work has been pretty boring, so I'm looking for a solid side project to delve into. If so, I'd love to help out.

-T. Arron Kotlensky


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 6:20 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 10:17 am
Posts: 755
Location: Monroe, CT
Hi Arron,
While I cant answer your question about the Townsend mine in Salisbury mills, I do know there exists in the town of Southeast, putnam county a mine by that same name. There is also a Townsend's forge dating back to 1810.
My main area of interest is Putnam County, I've been working on mapping and documenting the mines there for the last 5 years. It would be great to meet up some weekend and do some exploring! There is still alot to be rediscovered. As for constitution island, I have not been there ( how do you access it, walk on the train tracks?) but I do have coordinates of its mine. I'll try to find these and report back!
-Mike


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 6:31 pm 
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Location: Monroe, CT
Constitution island mine
from domestic deposit listing apr 23, 1984
41° 24' 12.089" N
73° 57' 15.018" W


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 10:31 pm 
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Location: Beacon, New York
Agreed on meeting up. My email is takotlensky@gmail.com. I'll be free most weekends in November to do something out there. I'd like to see if I can interest some people in doing some public archaeological work there in the spring, of course pending the opinion of the park, which I'm sure will be heartburn inducing.

Have you looked at any of the collections held by the PCHS-FSM on the mines in Fahnestock, especially on Odelltown proper? They seem to have a pretty decent collection, I just haven't had time to look through them yet.

As goes for Constitution Island, I imagine the...well, who keeps an eye on it? Military police?...since it's a part of the USMA reservation? I think you can get access to it if you simply request ahead of time. I went out there with the WPF fieldschool in 2004, but we didn't know about any of the iron mine workings there at that time.

Good to connect with you Mike!


-Arron Kotlensky


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 Post subject: Coalgrove, Gouverneur, and Kemble mines in Putnam Co.?
PostPosted: Tue Nov 09, 2010 11:06 am 
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Location: Beacon, New York
Hi again Mike and all,

A few months ago I went looking for the Coalgrove, Gouverneur, and Kemble mines based on Blake's approximate locational information from his 1849 county history, but with no success. Are you familiar with these mines, and perhaps have relocated them? It would seem based on Blake's description that they may lie within the Fahnestock park boundary in the eastern part of the park, but not for certain.

Also related to Fahnestock, I have seen reference to "Stewart's mine;" is this perhaps an earlier name for the Sunk mine or a different mine altogether?

Not sure if you would be interested to know but over the weekend, I was able to relocate (Thomas) Townsend's hematite/limonite mine in Orange County. It's in a wooded tract not too far east of the Moodna Viaduct, south of Orrs Mill Road and west of Pleasant Hill Road. Not much to speak of, just linear open pits, few apparent artifacts, and no definitive structural footprints associated with the pits. An article in the American Journal of Science helped in the search: [http://books.google.com/books?id=9bEEAAAAYAAJ&q=townsend#v=snippet&q=townsend&f=false], page 209. I can provide UTMs/lat-longs if you are interested in keeping them for your records.

Thanks for your time again,

-T. Arron Kotlensky


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 09, 2010 11:50 am 
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Location: Monroe, CT
Hi Arron,
Good to hear you were able to locate Townsends mine! So no evidence of underground workings besides the pits? Sometimes there can be found eroded or otherwise concealed adits not obvious unless you really study the layout of the mine. Did you take any pics that you would like to share?

I have not visited any of the 3 mines you mentioned but here are some tid bits of info I have gathered.
Kemble magnetite mine 1842 coords; 41-24-18N 073-52-50W
Image
kemble and coal grove UTMs
Image
Gouverneur mine; hard to decipher.
Image
Hmmm, maybe a trip to search out these mines is in order :D

Stewart mine is another name for Sunk mine. I have heard it referred to as Hamilton mine as well.
-Mike


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 Post subject: Coalgrove, Gouverneur, and Kemble mines in Putnam Co.?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2010 5:05 pm 
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Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2010 1:31 pm
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Location: Beacon, New York
Sorry Mike for the unintended delay in reply--Gmail shunted the posting notice to junk mail so I didn't know that you had replied!

Let me say, great stuff! Thank you so much for sharing. Yes, I don't know if you're busy this coming weekend (11th/12th), but I propose an expedition. And it'll be that much easier with the leaf-off conditions now, too, of course.

I was playing around in ArcMap with some of the UTMs you have for the Coal Grove and Kemble mines, and based on the written description you shared (is this from April 1932 based on the info at the top?...I have lots of questions by the way) of what might be pointing to either the Kemble or Coal Grove mines (or both), I think I have a pretty decent bead on where to start looking for these three mines. The location info in Blake's county history makes a lot more sense now, too, after seeing these coordinates plotted on a map. In any case, it looks like they may be located reasonably close to the Appalachian Trail, so perhaps not too much trespassing involved. Yes, I'm up for trekking out there, getting some solid GPS data, maps, photos, so on and so forth.

As goes for the Orange County Townsend mine I relocated, it was strictly a "bed ore" type mine, with just deep but not subterranean excavations for mining the mostly limonite/bog ore deposits outcropping along a slope. I'm not all sure where all the ore was smelted, but definitely in Cold Spring at the WPF blast furnace, and probably at the nearby Woodbury and maybe Greenwood No. 1 furnaces as well. I'm going to make another trip there soon to take better photographs and do some GPS work and mapping, and any company would be appreciated for sure.

But yes, let me know your schedule and we'll work out a trip. Anyone else in the group interested in going too?

-Arron


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Dec 04, 2010 1:19 pm 
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Location: Monroe, CT
Hi Arron,
I'll be free for the weekend of the 11-12 so I'm in. Also I'd like to mention that the UTMs on that list seem to be off by .15 to .5 miles so a thorough recce of the area might be needed or like any good mine explorer we will just sense where the mine is and hike right to it! :D


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 Post subject: Re: Unknown mine on Little Stony Point Park, Putnam County
PostPosted: Sat Oct 29, 2011 1:33 pm 
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Joined: Thu Oct 13, 2011 5:05 pm
Posts: 80
Location: Berkeley Heights
Just wanted to update this thread as it pertains to the tunnel at Little Stony Point Park. I found and explored the tunnel today before the snow. Brought a strong magnet and there is not a trace of magnetite. Around the corner from the portal, an abandoned quarry may be seen and explored. The remains of a compressed air pipe can be easily found and many drill marks seen. Just as I was leaving a scoutmaster and his dogs walked up. We talked a little about the area and he advised that he read that the tunnel was used to store explosives when the quarry was in operation. Sounded very plausible to me.

Some pictures will follow.


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 Post subject: Re: Unknown mine on Little Stony Point Park, Putnam County
PostPosted: Sat Oct 29, 2011 1:48 pm 
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Location: Berkeley Heights
I forgot to mention that I found the Coalgrove, Kemble and Goveuour Pits. Easy to find. Off the AT on Route 301, actually a blue blazed trail that runs off the AT.


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 Post subject: Re: Unknown mine on Little Stony Point Park, Putnam County
PostPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2011 5:19 pm 
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I've wanted to bring a magnet in there but never got around to it. However, I'm having a hard time believing the tunnel was intended strictly for dynamite storage (there is such a tunnel at the larger quarry across the street with a door on it). You really would need to get on your hands and knees to fetch the dynamite as the tunnel gets really tiny. Also, why no evidence of a door to seal off the dynamite?

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"If you thought old, abandoned mines were only in the west, then you haven't been to IronMiners.com!"


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 Post subject: Re: Unknown mine on Little Stony Point Park, Putnam County
PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2011 8:28 am 
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Joined: Thu Oct 13, 2011 5:05 pm
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Location: Berkeley Heights
I only report what I'm told. Lol but I did a fairly thorough sweep around and did not find any magnetite. However, In the right fork of the tunnel, I did find a trace of a mineral with copper inclusion. It was water soluble, perhaps Melanterite or another clay mineral with a blue tint.

By the way, the Quarry was aptly called the Stony Point Quarry. I had wanted to get across the street to Bull Hill but the storm was bearing down on me.


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 Post subject: Re: Unknown mine on Little Stony Point Park, Putnam County
PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2011 8:24 pm 
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Location: Winnemucca, NV
Very interesting. I don't think I've ever seen melanterite anywhere in the Highlands. A friend of mine discovered what I believe to be melanterite from a copper mine in Arizona. It's beautiful yet amazing how quickly it disintegrates under the presence of water.

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"If you thought old, abandoned mines were only in the west, then you haven't been to IronMiners.com!"


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