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Come over to the Dark Side....... We have Cookies!

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Come over to the Dark Side....... We have Cookies!

"Even the pheasants are leaving New Jersey."

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I don't have all the answers.
I don't even know all the questions!

I have alot of good memories of the family farm in north jersey, there is still alot of iron over there.....no way I'd live over there now though

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What do you mean by "overloaded" officer?

Striking similarities to NEPA when you think about it

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My aim, when I built my car was to scare the hell out of myself, its the type of vehicle that were I to park in front of your house, your lawn would die

I found this on the internet when I was browsing a NJ promotion site..



Miner Greg

youll get yours pal.

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Come over to the Dark Side....... We have Cookies!

Thanks, and yes Happy New Year to all!

Chris,

You opened yourself too much by posting that..



Miner Greg

To be perfectly honest I actually like New Jersey

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My aim, when I built my car was to scare the hell out of myself, its the type of vehicle that were I to park in front of your house, your lawn would die

When I think of what I like about New Jersey I always think about many of the lesser known places. I have never found better Italian food and pizza overall than in New Jersey. The western part of the state (Warren, Sussex, Hunterdon counties) is very country-like and scenic -- even New England-like in flavor. And of course NJ does host some beautiful parks and mines, if you know where to look. But much of northern NJ is riddled with poorly planned suburban over-development devoid of any "downtowns" and sense of community. And politics wise it feels like a police state and far too conservative for my taste.

Once I moved to NY, I never regretted it. Sure NY has its problems too but it is much more relaxed and liberal here. I have already met a ton of people and there is definitely a sense of community I have never felt before. One of the best kicks about NY is you can get beer at almost any convenience store or gas station and many restaurants. In NJ, you have to drive some distance to find a liquor store and have to be choosy as to where to dine because many towns issue a limited number of liquor licenses.

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"If you thought old, abandoned mines were only in the west, then you haven't been to IronMiners.com!"

I agree with almost all of that, but the politics portion.. That's the biggest problem with NJ, is that it isn't conservative at all. That's why we have the highest taxes in the nation, deficits, traffic, corruption, unions, large government, etc... The primary reason why people move out of the state to be perfectly honest.

I agree with your reasons for moving to New York for everything but the politics again.. The reason we all like Orange County so much is because it isn't liberal. Orange County has almost always been a Red county.. There certainly wouldn't have been an Orange County Choppers, if Orange County was liberal...

But like you said, NJ has it's nice areas.. In my opinion, the nicest parts of NJ aren't the tourist areas as I'm not really one for the shore. Living in Sussex county, I'm just on the boarder of when the state changes to a less suburban area. The prettier part of the state in my opinion..

Miner Greg

Yes, NJ voted overwhelmingly for Obama during the 2008 election. But I think we need to make the distinction between social conservatism and fiscal conservatism. Social conservatism is an ideology in which the government should be responsible for enforcing "traditional values or behaviors" based on the assumption that these ideas are what keep people "civilized and decent." This is relative, often interpreted in a strictly religious context and often inconsistent with the idea of individual liberty. What is tradition today may tomorrow be considered oppressive or hostile. Slavery was once tradition in the south. It was once tradition to stone adulterers to death (and still is in some conservative countries). Times change, government must learn to do so too.

If you want the government to tell you what you can put in your body, who you can marry and whether you're allowed to divorce, that creationism should be taught in schools, that the separation between church and state is merely a creation of activist judges, that literal passages in the Bible should be treated as law, that the terminally ill should die a slow and painful death, that nudity is wrong and should be banned, that science is a threat to religion, that the earth is 6,000 years old, and that abstinence education is the most effective way to restrict the transmission of AIDS and other deadly diseases, then you are in line with some of today's most prominent socially conservative leaders. I am not. When socially oppressive nations are mentioned, the word "conservative" is often used. Fiscal conservatism is smaller government, less government spending, less government programs and assistance, business run market rather than government controlled.

Sure, there are problems on both the left and the right, but today's modern "conservative" is not the path to liberty and the pursuit of happiness. I am of the belief that you should be able to do as you please as long as you are not hurting someone else.

Yes, Orange County may be a red county but it is a less socially conservative, if not more libertarian leaning county than let's say Morris County, NJ. I can reason with fiscal conservatism but I believe strongly in civil liberties, an ideology that is hard to find in most modern day "conservatives." Right-wing evangelical values are not the kind of values I want to live under.

Politically I am an independent, a free thinker. The right to bear arms is a civil liberty and I support it.

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"If you thought old, abandoned mines were only in the west, then you haven't been to IronMiners.com!"

left wing, right wing liberals? i never heard of a liberal as part of an airplane and ive been around airplanes for a long time

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Government control has been a big problem with states like NJ, CA, NY, etc. face and has been one of the biggest problems with this nation. If you look at the data, the states with the highest taxes are the states which are having the most money problems. And they counteract that by raising the taxes further! I personally believe the republican party is not conservative enough and that is the reason they lost the last presidential election.

What you are mostly concerned with is Religious conservatism which is a complete different topic. While I can tell you don't agree, Religious conservatism is a very small aspect of any government policy today in this country and I would prefer it taken out of politics all together. Unfortunately both Democrats and the media won't let it happen, that's the problem. The only Religious conservatism policies that really exist, which doesn't entirely exist because of religious values, is abortion and the definition of marriage. Both are NOT managed or restricted at all in today's federal policy. So I don't understand why anyone even brings this up. It is not a federal crime for a gay couple to marry and it is not a federal crime to have an abortion. On the marriage issue, both Obama and McCain were against gay marriage, but both were also against making a federal policy on it. There are no laws which enforce teaching creationism, but the liberal party tries to pass laws preventing people from supporting religious parties. If someone wants to celebrate Christmas, they should be able to. If a city wants to put up a Christmas display in front of their municipal building, why create a law to stop them? As per the founding fathers, the purpose of separating Church and State was to protect the Churches from the State. Preventing the government from taking control and enforcing laws on them on religious establishments. Not the other way around.

Civil rights, conservative policy generally dictates a hands off approach on managing these. Thus as in many conservative states, there generally are less laws preventing people from doing what they want to do. Liberal policy on civil rights is to generally allow the government to make the choice for you on what is good for you or not. Thus gun rights, fireworks, pumping your own gas, smoking in bars, most of the restriction that cause headaches today.

Fiscally, conservative policy is generally an open market solution to allow the market to dictate how things should be. If people want to buy SUV's, let them buy SUV's. If people want electric cars, let people decide on their own if they want them. If companies want to merge, buy each other out, let them. If the companies mis-manage their-selves, let them fail. Another company who is fiscally conservative would buy the failing company out and make a better company out of the failure. Liberal fiscal policy generally has been to let the government in there to make and control market. As we've seen with forcing banks to giving money out to people to buy a home who can't afford it, the government bailouts and in history, this hasn't been too successful.

As per legality of drugs, you'd expect expect the conservative party to be more in support of it with the generally hands off approach, but most parties are against it. Only the green party really supports it. The Democrat party does not.

Miner Greg

its best not to talk politics and religion with people. But...Ill throw in my two cents. If the markets should be allowed to be free, why was TARP initated by George W ? Those banks should have been allowed to fail. There are plenty of others to take there place.- ie NO GOVT. intervention. THE BANKS WERE NOT FORCED TO WRITE MORTAGES TO PEOPLE ON SEVERAL OR MORE HOMES. THE GREED MADE THEM DO IT.
. And lets not forget the great idea of investing social security in the stock markets. How many people that planned on retiring with in the last five years would have had there plans dashed ? And along those lines. everyone who knows anything about the stock market knows it has its highs and lows. Stocks are a long term investment. People over 60 dont have that long to live to see the market go through a high and low. GREED is the culprit of this whole economic mess. People dont want to work hard for an honest days pay. And corporations dont want to pay an honest wage for an honest days work.
i for one was a Ronal reagon die hard. In my opinion the greatest president I will see in my life time. he spurred the economy in the early 80's by " priming". it. He invested in the defense industry and interstate reconstruction. Those workers bought goods that WERE MADE IN AMERICA. Which in turn put Americans to work. Well well fast forward to the present. There are no longer and factories left in America. So where are we supposed to invest ? And NAFTA and CAFTA are responsible for that. And it was under BIll Clintons adminstration that those acts were passed.
THE POINT IM MAKING IS NEITHER REPUBLICANS NOR DEMOCRATS , NOR LIBERALS OR CONSERVATIVES CAN POINT A FINGER. AT ANYONE.THEY ARE ALL AT FAULT. Each adminstration since the 40's have done a little to hurt this country in one way or another. There is no room for extremeism. The conservatives play & talk a good game. Small goverment with little or no intervention. Herbert Hover took a conservatives advice ( Mellon). And did nothing when the depression started. Look where that got us ? If it wasnt for Adolf Hitler and WW 2 we'd probably be still suffering. And no goverment intervention means NO goverment intervention. Ie. the banking system.And let industry or corporations dictate there own fate ? Look where that got the anthracite industry ? And if your a true capitalist you know that the more choices a consumer has, the better it is for them . Ie US. Well mega mergers mean less choices for us. So in the long run its to our detriment as there is no longer a need to compete for our business ( prices, quality, etc) As we only have a limited or no choices on goods and services.
And seperation of church and state ? Here in PA religious organzations are exempt from property taxs. Tax emempt status was granted in the days when the religious orders were poor. Now a days the local Jesuit college. The University of Scranton is a wash in money. And have been expanding at an alarming rate. In the process taking taxable properties off the tax roles. Here in Scranton 2.6 million dollars per year have ben lost in local property revenues. Yet the larger they have become, the more city services they have been using. So just as the poltical parties have been picking and choosing there policies to fit there needs, so have the religious orders. No extreme is good. Should we all sit in the dark , and cold ? NO. But should we be generating electricity with oil and natural gas when we have plenty of soft coal domestically ? Should interstate 80 through the Poconos be congested generating polution, when the pocono cut off lies underutilized ? NO. But the energy and transportation policies of this country are so out of date. And NEITHER party have done anything to change that. Im willing to bet that the stock portfolios of both democrats and republicans, liberals and conservatives are identical. Heavily ladden with oil companies. And the people of this country have gotten spoiled. If passenger service was restored, Im willing to bet people would still be reluctant to use it because they are to lazy to walk to a station from ther car. A perfect example of this bit of human nature could be found in NEPA. Anthracite is still available. Yet people are to lazy to maintain a fire, to lazy to empty ashes. And with the exception of a dieing breed, TO lazy to work in an anthracite mine. Not to many people out of high school would be willing to do it. Not even for benefits and decent money !!!
**** Im not creating an argument. Not disagreeing with anyones opinion were all entitled to one. But the blame for the state of this country isnt any one parties fault. NO one has the right to play innocent. PA is especially a good example of poor fiscal management. Slot machines were the answear to all our ills. Now its table games. .... Instead of relying on gambling. How about investments in new industries ? And reviving old ones ?