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PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2007 7:38 pm 
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Location: Above the Sterling Hill Mine
MSA only produces one ComfoCap today and it is the taller style. From the research I have done, I don't think MSA ever produced a "Low Vein" ComfoCap. I think the confusion is that the older MSA ComfoCaps were just shorter in height than the newer MSA ComfoCaps. My guess is to meet ANSI top impact regulations, MSA probably needed to make the ComfoCap taller. So none of these Vintage or modified ComfoCaps would probably meet the current regulations for top impact.

Miner Greg


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2007 9:35 pm 
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Hey Greg,

Just a heads up :lol: all the years as contractors & working with the coal miners we have never had a hard hat inspected or our mining hats. Tony even said that they wear the modified caps & never had an issue. I think those caps are fine or that guy would not be in the business of making them for the mining industry.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2007 10:39 am 
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Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2007 5:14 am
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Location: Charleston, WV
Well...... Just a little test tonight on my "cut down" hard hat. They delivered a brand spankin new Fairchild 4 WD scoop to us yesterday morning so last night I got to be the first to take it underground the damn canopy sits a little less than an inch from the top of my hard hat. If it had been a non cut down it would have been miserable! Let's just say after the beating my hat took from that canopy on every bump I hit it provides more than enough protection! Now my neck on the other hand is jammed down into my spine! Hopefully they are going to raise that damn canopy!

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 Post subject: Re: Low Vein Comfo Caps
PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2008 2:52 pm 
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Location: SW Indiana
UG Miner Tony WV wrote:
Just some info you guys may be interested in.

http://www.rogerwilliamson.com/generic196.html


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Dows anyone know where this guy went. The link isn't working.

My 2 cents, the shell of a low-vein helmet should be a piece of cake to fabricate. On short-runs the fiberglass would be much easier than injected polycarbonate and stronger. The liner would be the hard part and the portion that would make or break on MSHA Approval

Wondering if a new liner would fit in a low-vein shell?


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2008 4:05 pm 
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Location: Within 60 Miles of the Northern Anthracite Field
you could just take a comfo cap liner and install the rivets on the cap. getting it approved is another story. those helmets listed here were not approved and home made. some guys take a new comfo cap, cut around it and take an inch out then glue it back together, bondo and paint it. im not putting that on my lid.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2008 4:43 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jun 26, 2008 3:39 pm
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Location: West Virginia
Cut downs are pretty good. They will eventually bust though. As most miners know mining hats are only for bump protection only. Yes, new liners will fit the old comfo caps the ones that take liners. Now mine was the lace in type and I laced the string into my liner and have used it for 4 years now. Doug if you are interested there are several places that sell cut downs and One place that sells molded low veins I can get you some numbers if you want them.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2008 5:50 pm 
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I found a bulletin on MSHA's site that states the modified shell are not acceptable.

http://www.msha.gov/regs/complian/PIB/2007/pib07-16.asp


I would like a website if there is someone out there molding shells. Or a phone number would work. [/url]


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2008 7:07 pm 
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Location: West Virginia
I will get you a number if they still have any left. Yes, cutdowns are not MSHA acceptable, and depending on how hard MSHA is where you are it may not be a problem. Low vein are technically not acceptable anymore either nor is the molded ones. If an MSHA approved helmet is also out of date it is not acceptable. I know several MSHA inspectors that have out of date Comfo caps because that was my justification for wearing my low vein.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 1:03 am 
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Location: Hard coal region, PA
what happened to this guy and his low vein caps?? I guess hes not making them anymore? I want one...... i guess the mine law killed his business..

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 8:47 am 
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I called a Mine Supply Company the Coalfire refered to and they said they could not get them anymore.

I've been intrigued by the idea of making new shells off of a low-vien pattern. I picked up a low-vien helmet off of E-Bay, removed four layers of heavy, bad paint and except for normal cracks it is not in bad shape at all.

Reading over the MSHA requirments, I don't see any reason why a low-vien with the right composite and a new style liner would not meet the requirments. MSHA does not go into detailed testing and implies that the ANSI Z89 Industry Standard is acceptable. Still that is not a problem at first glance.

The catches are:

Cost, a hand-layed composite shell even a basic fibreglass is not going to be cheap. It may take some carbon fibre and or kevlar to pass the pentetration test. Even less cheap!

Weight, The old low-viens are incredibly thin. I doubt that they would come close to passing current standards. But that is speculation.

Testing, I can invision getting any design tested to Standards to cost several thousand dollars.


So, the quick and dirty method may be to make new fibreglass shells with a bit of additional reenforcement along the edge and sell them on E-Bay as reproductions, without certification.

Slightly less quick and dirty would be to beef up the design to meet penetration, not do the certification testing and sell them on E-Bay as reproductions.

The problem is how many could be sold and at what price. A straight fibreglass shell would most likely run more than a Certified Comfo Cap does. A new certified low-vein pattern could easily cost 4 to 5 times as much.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 10:07 am 
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what ive seen people do is remove the leather and lace liner then take a modern comfo cap liner and rivet it in the older "low vein" comfo caps. i really wouldnt want a cap that has been cut apart and glued back together, thats just asking for trouble! the modern comfo cap provides good bump protection and has a good bit of give to it in the liner so your head doesnt bottom out on the cap itself while the liner streatches when you wack it on something. the older caps dont have as much room above the liner and are more of a solid feel when you bump something. for nostalgia or doing tours my opinion is the low vein caps are great, but for actually working in the mine ill take my modern comfo cap any day. do you know there is a mine law that says your cap needs to be replaced every 5 years because the plastic breaks down. thats why the caps have a build date molded in them. now i dont think this is very strictly enforced though.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 12:53 pm 
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Chris,

You at flirting with the second of three parts of the ANSI Spec. , which is impact attenuation. I suspect that the modern liner is designed to have more give and hence more attenuation. This part is more difficult since the testing is not simple and would be more costly.

I also wonder if the low-vien helmets might have had more give when they were new and as the leather has aged and hardened that have become more rigid.

As to the law requiring replacement, I have not seen it. But, I may have been looking in the wrong place of the MSHA regs. I don't question that MSA maybe recommending replacement and MSHA is taking that as a requirement to meet the ANSI Spec. In the absence of a clear MSHA regulation, I would think it would depend on what the material was and how it aged.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 4:29 pm 
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yea you know what ive never really read it either, i was just told about it. as for an attenuation test, i pretty much did my own. whacked my head in a 5 ft vein once with a "low vein" cap with leather liner then ended up doing it again a few months later with the modern comfo cap. results were my head liked the modern one better, cheap test :lol:

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 11:14 pm 
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i know they don't fly at all anymore, but the old leather liners are waaay more comfortable in my opinion...... i like the old ones. on the other hand..we know which would hold up better to a heavy blow. :|

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 11:28 pm 
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I'm sure the extra head room between the top of the cap and your head is part of the engineering behind the newer MSA comfo caps. It's probably also required to meet MSHA standards. In addition, a taller cap with a taller arch is probably stronger than the lower, flatter cap. Look at mine tunnels, arched ceiling provide greater strength than a flat ceiling.

Miner Greg


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